The southern border crisis, Gaza, and untenable beliefs prompt Kemp and Fong to cut loose in a lively discussion. The podcast allows these two retired former pastors to share their genuine convictions without fearing losing their employment. Kemp shares his experience at the opening in the "Big Beautiful Wall," near the small town of Jacumba featured in this week's edition of 60 Minutes. Current headlines reveal that the do-nothing Congress has failed again to act. Funding is desperately needed to bring relief to border agents, manage processing, and stem the tide of out-of-control crossings. Fong takes the conversation to Israel and the unfavorable response to Biden's support for the Netanyahu government's "overkill" in the Gaza war. The two Kens review some theological assumptions rooted in long-held beliefs that are indefensible today. Fong has been asked to address his views on heaven and hell with a group of retired ministers and missionaries - it opens up a free-wheeling review of the two Kens' theological journey on the subject. SHOW NOTES